The Un-Realist and Meditations On “Keeping it Racially Simpleminded!”

By Maxjulian

June 6, 2006

Category: Uncategorized

47 Comments »

Back in the day, there was the “Paper-Bag Test” in which Negroes darker than a convenience store satchel were barred entry to Knee-Grow society parties.

Then, there was the “Comb Test,” where a potential party attendee would be met on the house stoop by a phalanx of blue-blooded, transluscent lawn jockeys who’d run a comb through the unkempt locks of the nervous nellie; if the comb navigated an untroubled pathway through wavy locks – entry was granted. But if the comb was met by a briar patch that locked down, or, God forbid, broke off comb teeth, the rejected was advised to head straight for the conk kit, Wooly!

Nigga-lore tells it that in the distant past, the hi-yaller fraternity and sorority – Alpha’s and the AKA’s – were quadroon or octaroon exclusive; anything ‘the dark side of Alfre Woodard’ had to git with Delta Sigma Theta or the Que’s. My own grandfather was a “Q” Dog, which really meant he was “too” dark and thus got Jim Crow’d by his own “kind.”

WE’VE COME A LONG WAY BABY!

LIKE HELL WE HAVE!!!

Whether we call ourselves Africans, African-Americans, blacks or the “name du jour” or whether we wear Kente or Hilnigger, ain’t much changed since the slave ship.
Willie Lynch Lives!

And it’s “Payback time for the psychic ancestors of the Spooks who couldn’t get past the door.”

Like ‘crabs in a barrel,’ they jockey – in 2006 – to prove that they are blacker than the next broke back nigga; their shaky identities depend on authenticating their “blackness” through devaluing, backbiting, undercutting and maligning another nigga victim of Racism/White Supremacy, the same disease that they are subject to. Blackness as privilege, rather than birthright. Interpreting the requirement’s these SUPERBLACK gatekeepers of racial conformity espouse in order to be accepted as black are similiar to the qualifications necessary to join ‘Skull and Bones:’ A Mystery, Wrapped In a Riddle!

When I hung out at the playground in my hood, I would occasionally hear the epithet, “you talk like a white boy.” Not from white folks mind you; they’d typically say, ‘my, aren’t you articulate,’ as if I were a well trained chimp. No. My righteous brethren would taunt me with this noxious, hand-me-down brew. This filtered beverage served by these lil’ knuckleheads was spoonfed them by the white man. I was only being my own black self, a black child, from a black family, educated, proud. But how I spoke troubled these black kids. And their response began to trouble me. It created a consciousness in me that I have never lost.

Fastforward to today:

I was “shocked, shocked” to find my name in the mouth of an online, odiferous {adjective deleted} who calls herself the “Racial Realist.” She dissected my post about having had a child with a white woman. Here’s what she wrote:

Can you be pro-black and have a preference for white partners?

I just stumbled on what I regard as a hugely problematic post in a blog – on the surface this black guy appeared to be black oriented – he had one post about the black holocaust and was pointing out that while the media does a lot of coverage on the Jewish holocaust, the Black holocaust has been given virtually no attention…looking further down his blog I notice he has a picture of his mixed race daughter (she is about 2 years old) – first he states that while she is half white, she is 100% black; he also says that he has to compensate for the fact that his daughter has a white mother…he then goes on to mention his son who is also mixed race and it seems that his son has a different white mother – the black guy complains that his son is living with the white mother plus her white boyfriend….my response is simply, if you have a preference for white women/ white looking women and like the idea of fathering children with them, why are you complaining? …I also find it hypocritical that he is proclaiming that his children are 100% black while at the same time being so obssessed by white women (Ok I am technically half white and I am seen as/ see myself as black) but I just find this guy’s attitude to be disconcerting in terms of having such contradictory views and also with regard to the phoniness of it…Additionally I feel that the people who “collude” with men like this are themselves very phony; ie the white woman or white looking woman who revels in the fact that this man loves her whiteness but at the same time pays lip service to anti racism…(will have to do a post on this topic some time lol).

Now, let’s deal with the factual inaccuracies first. I don’t have a son, never claimed to have one, in the post that “The Un-Realist” is referring to, or at any other time or place. An aside: her fabrication of this was, I’m sure, due to her zeal in playing “NIGGAGOTCHA!” ‘Ima break me off another perpetrator.’

The fact that she “created” a second mixed race child and ANOTHER white mother for me strongly supports her thesis of my hypocrisy. But subtracting this delusional family of mine…Well, let’s see how that affects things.

“On the surface this black guy appeared to be black oriented…” What exactly does this mean to be, “black oriented?” She cites subjects such as the black holocaust that I have written about as indicators of my “alleged” black orientation. But, alas, I have “an obsession with white women,” evidence of which is the white woman I married (and the one Un-Real blinked into existence), plus the two little zebras that I have running around here somewhere.

I cannot be pro-black and sleep white, according to the Un-Realist. I cannot love black people, or myself AND love a white woman; I cannot learn, know or speak the truth about Racism/White Supremacy because – who I’m layin’ up with negates all and renders my blackness/black consciousness null and void. She chides me for “loving her (my ex’s) whiteness and paying lip service to anti-racism.” So, I can’t wish or work for social justice, nor could I be a sincere anti-racist freedom fighter because I’m having sex with a white woman.

By that logic, the white slavemaster would be considered a pro-black militant nationalist because he was gettin’ more black pussy than I’ve ever seen.

I have no right to complain that my ex has issues/problems/racism/dandruff, because what? Because you get what you pay for? Does the fact that I divorced the chick count for nothing?

Ok I am technically half white and I am seen as/ see myself as black but I just find this guy’s attitude to be disconcerting in terms of having such contradictory views…”

Now, I find this to be the most meaningful moment of Un-Realist’s entire posting. She admits that she in fact is a “Zebra,” a “Checkerboard Chick.” She’s half and half. And here’s where my inner therapist asserts himself: “…I am TECHNICALLY half WHITE and I am SEEN as/see myself as black but I just find this guy’s attitude to be disconcerting in terms of having such contradictory views…”

How ‘you are seen’ is given primacy, at least in terms of the construction of your thoughts, over, ‘how you see yourself’. You are what they tell you you are. First. It appears that you are saying that you see yourself through their lense, through their white gaze and do what? Act/think/behave accordingly?

Is it any wonder that you would adopt a similarly limited, fear-based schema of racial identification as the white man?

Stay with me now, UnReal. Being “technically half white” would have to be difficult, particularly with the philosphy that you espouse. To have a white mother and NOT to be able to receive the benefit of white or light skinned privilege would have to be difficult. You must hate your father for muddying the water just enough to leave you clearly and recognizeably – a nigga. And I bet you can’t stand it.

But, you’re no mere “technicality;” why, you’re no technicality at all – you really are a full-fledged half-white woman. Say WORD! I mean, if your momma is white – aren’t you half-white for real? (I am not half-white, by the way, tho’ I’m a little yella) Often, people who are “OTHER”, are so pained by their limbo/’in-between’ status that they become militant arbiters of the very domain that wounded and left them reeling/feeling insecure in the first place. Their racial definition.

Now, I still believe that people are people, just as the Wampanoags did and all the other indigeneous people and tribes who welcomed white people to various shores. But I’ve tried to and had to learn from some BIG mistakes that I’ve made. Its like that line in the Godfather Part II: “Your father did business with Hyman Roth. Your father respected Hyman Roth. But your father never trusted Hyman Roth…” Like Michael Corleone, I’ve stupidly, at times, put my faith in white people and gotten burned. I’m sure you have as well. But several have saved my life. And, coincidentally, one gave you yours. (How do you reconcile your politics with that, Un-Real?)

You indict me for dating, marrying, having a baby with a white woman. And I’m again hypocritical for saying my baby is 100% black. But curiously, you can assert your blackness, in spite of the fact that you are the product, the seed of the SAME kind of union as my daughter. I mean, what is the definition of a hypocrite in England?

Who’s black-oriented versus actually feeling or BEING black in their own skin – and on their own terms?

Could we be a little less white in our “summary execution and ex-communication of black folks” on the basis of sins lorded over by the self appointed Black Politburo – or what?! (Thank you, Christiann A.!)

UnRealist, your so-called blackness is as much a construct as mine, if you wanna go there. You know me as a blogger, not as a person. I’m an archetype; hell, I’m your DADDY! Are you blacker than me because you’ve passed the “Nigga SAT?” Or the “Racial Authenticity Test,” as author Jake Lamar terms it? When black folks get mired in this kind of cesspool, the racism they pretend to decry has WON!!!!

Either we’re black or we aren’t. Certainly, you can disagree and dislike my politics and past – cuz I ain’t dating no white girl now. I got a pretty brown sistah and I’m lovin’ it. Who and what are you now, or have you ever dated? Swear on a stack of Bibles? (You cannot take the fifth. Amendment that is, American thing, cheerio!)

And yes, as a black person in this culture, I have struggled with confusion, self-hate, self condemnation, shame, pride, self-love, etc. But, HELLO – I live in America; WTF do you think its gonna be like here, Nirvana? And any nigga that plays holier than thou, as if their shit don’t stink, who acts like they’ve overcome all of that self hate stank, or never had to deal with it – is full of shit. This culture pumps HATE at us every day like a 24/7 sprinkler system – everybody’s at least a little damp and most are soaking wet. And I’m not talking about keeping your “message” or “rhetoric” consistent, sucka! I’m talking about that depleted uranium potent self-hate traversing the nooks and crannies of your muthafuckin’ marrow!!!!

When niggas in the diaspora can accept each other for the diverse people and populace that we are and stop our ‘trifling ass-Willie Lynching’ of each other – maybe we’ll have some Black Unity and move on the external oppressor who dropped the ‘Race-Rape’ drug in our coconut in the first place, you know, the one who’s still stirring the drink.

And yo’ baby girl, if the criteria for membership in the black race is sleeping black – I gotta shovel; we can go dig up Strom Thurmond’s spindly carcass and mount him on your dasboard.
____________________________________________________________________________________

A PostScript: What’s maddening about US is our adoption of simpleminded, global prescriptions to salve our wounds. “You can’t love a white woman and love yourself or black people,” even if your life’s work is helping black people. This is comfort food for those in deep pain. Complexity sucks when your soul hurts. Blanket indictments and responding tit-for-obtuse-tat provides a certain boozy glow, a revenge cut crack-high. I know that some people MUST “Keep it Stupid, Simple” in order to feel mastery/control over that unwieldy emotion, that deep cut of racism. I feel it, felt it, struggle with it daily. And I understand why folks have to use that crutch. But, I would urge folks, to remember what is best in us and not allow racism to destroy it. Its the white man who conditions/ed this narrow, inhumane thought: you’re either with us or against us. What if we’re for humanity? What if we are pro-human AND pro-black? Is that hypocritical, too? What if we care about imperialism and racism? Am I a bad black, deserving of ex-communication?

A critic of mine on UnReal’s blog talked about how hypocritical I was for having married a white woman; then, I read on her blog, her ravings about her move to Canada! I mean, “what’s wrong with Africa?” When niggas keep pissing on each other over trivia, responses conditioned by and implanted like a computer chip in their cranium – by the white man – they cut off their noses to spite their face. Complexity IS, whether we want to believe it or not. And when we maintain these “take no prisoners”, racial hierarchical – “you got to act this way or that way to be a REAL black man” – we debase ourselves and our humanity, we debase what made us great, and reduce ourselves to white minstrels in blackface. We are better than that. I think. We are the parents of ALL people – from A-Z. Just because one of your offspring often acts like a devil doesn’t mean you need to get down in the trough with him. Wake the FUCK UP, PEOPLE!!

47 Responses to “The Un-Realist and Meditations On “Keeping it Racially Simpleminded!””

  1. this sounds like a personal beef…

    but i too find it problemic to be “pro-black” & carry on romantic relationships w/ white folks. it’s just a little something off about that.

  2. FS… I understand your points on this matter. However when it comes to interracial relationships, I find that most Black women are not very forgiving and/or understanding…lol… understandably so!

    I read a number of the posts on RR’s page and I get the vibe that, one: she is very uncomfortable with the fact that she is “biracial”. It appears to me that she is attempting to overcompensate for her shame and prove her “blackness” by her attacks on you. Two: I wonder what her relationship was like with her Father? And what she saw and felt while growing up…. in regards to the relationship between her Father and Mother? I sense there may be some unresolved issues there which she may be projecting towards you. I say this not just from her comments about you and your white ex, but in reading some of her other posts, it appears she has a fascination with interracial relationships. I sense also that she has a underlying disdain for Black men… no matter how much she shouts about her love for them… I find the exchange between you both thought-provoking… but sad in some unexplained way…

    Blessing!

  3. PW: That’s like me saying, “I find it problematic to be pro-women and carry on romantic heterosexual relationships with men.”

    I may not have gay sex, because that’s not how I roll, but what do I look like telling someone who does or has that – there’s something “a little off about that?”

    Who are you?

    I find that ridiculous. It seems to me that posture is designed to make you feel a little more superior/righteous; but if you need it, go for it.

  4. Ok you invited me to comment on your blog and this is my comment. BTW, you’ve referred to me as a jezebel, so don’t expect me to be diplomatic lol.

    Re:
    I cannot be pro-black and sleep white, according to the Un-Realist. I cannot love black people, or myself AND love a white woman; I cannot learn, know or speak the truth about Racism/White Supremacy because – who I’m layin’ up with negates all and renders my black consciousness null and void. She chides me for “loving her (my ex’s) whiteness and paying lip service to anti-racism.” So, I can’t wish or work for social justice, nor could I be a sincere anti-racist freedom fighter because I’m having sex with a white woman.

    You got it…like I said on my blog, no in my opinion a black person cannot be conscious/pro-black and marry a white person…it’s an absolutely crazy contradiction and anyone who feels that it’s possible to be pro black/ conscious and marry/ date white is kidding themselves big time…how can you love your people and choose the person who is going to be your significant other from the group which oppresses your people?…you don’t see this zest for intermarriage/ interracial relationships in any other racial group – only blacks – and I think it’s indicative of self hatred on a massive scale…and this is one of the reasons why there is so little black unity and so little commitment to building strong black communities… there appears to be this desperation with certain black men (and black women)to have white partners – which actually perpetuates the stereotype that racist whites have that black people are so desperate to mate with them – why not contradict their racist fantasies rather than proving them right/colluding with them?

    PS. I thought that the extract you quoted from someone elses blog about their mixed race son referred to you – my mistake. HOWEVER, the message I got from that post was that you prefer white women/ non-black women and the message I got from your blog was that you consider yourself to be pro-black.

  5. “And yes, as a black person in this culture, I have struggled with confusion, self-hate, self condemnation, shame, pride, self-love, etc. But, HELLO – I live in America”

    Exactly. Getting free isn’t an event, it’s a process. There might be some important moments along the way, but i never trust people who “see the light” and think that’s it.

  6. Sly Civilian: Well said. Very well said. So question – what’s with these folks who consider getting free an event?

    RR: What I find fascinating about you is your condemnation of one who has traveled the same path as your father – in this one respect. You are the product of an interracial union. How did you become “pro-black?”

    Also, what does it mean then that much of my time is spent fighting white supremacy by word, deed and action? Nothing according to you. How can I take you seriously when you act as if you know me?

    Funny thing is, you do – I’m your father. But I’m not him.

    What IS the deal between you and your white mom and you and your black dad? And how do you reconcile this militance with the fact that you are my daughter – my kid is YOU!

  7. Asabagna said…
    I sense also that she has a underlying disdain for Black men… no matter how much she shouts about her love for them… I find the exchange between you both thought-provoking… but sad in some unexplained way…

    Why thank you for the predictable psychobabble with regard to my situation. If it makes you feel less threatened to believe I am a fucked-up, confused, mixed-race person with an “underlying disdain for Black men”, by all means, believe this. I do indeed have an underlying disdain for integration-hungry/ self-hating black/brown men (and women)(especially those who proclaim themselves to be pro-black) – oh, and I have a disdain for white liberals as well…hopefully that should cover all the asinine bloggers who no doubt will comment here in due course.

  8. Interesting.

    So through dating/marrying a white woman, I was – unbeknownst to me – paralyzed, my brain shortcircuited, my blackness – deleted.

    Well, who the hell was that nigga speaking out against racism on campus, organizing non-white students, marching, writing, attending interracial racial dialogues, scaring white folks to death, analyzing, reading, thinking about it 24/7?

    It couldn’t have been me…what the hell was I thinking?

  9. Maxjulian said…
    RR: What I find fascinating about you is your condemnation of one who has traveled the same path as your father – in this one respect.

    I think my opinion of my father is going to be obvious with regard to the stance I’ve taken.

    You are the product of an interracial union. How did you become “pro-black?”

    I’m afraid that’s too complex to answer in one comment!

    Also, what does it mean then that much of my time is spent fighting white supremacy by word, deed and action? Nothing according to you.

    Fighting white supremacy doesn’t mean much to me if the motive behind it is to get closer to white people.

    How can I take you seriously when you act as if you know me?
    Funny thing is, you do – I’m your father. But I’m not him.

    Interesting comment…I certainly feel I know how men (and women)like you think (I used to be white-oriented myself).

  10. Maxjulian said…
    Interesting.

    So through dating/marrying a white woman, I was – unbeknownst to me – paralyzed, my brain shortcircuited, my blackness – deleted.

    Well, who the hell was that nigga speaking out against racism on campus, organizing non-white students, marching, writing, attending interracial racial dialogues, scaring white folks to death, analyzing, reading, thinking about it 24/7?

    It couldn’t have been me…what the hell was I thinking

    It is perfectly possible to be involved in anti-racism and still be uncomfortable about being black. My sister is very involved in anti-racism and she has only ever dated/ will only date white men – go figure. lol
    The thing is how can we as black people get white people to have respect for us if we don’t have any respect for ourselves? If white people sense that we’re desperate for integration, desperate to marry them, how are we ever going to be on a level playing field?…Like Malcolm X, I came to this realization some years ago, and it was very liberating.

  11. RR: Your need for pat, rigid answers, it seems, is quite pronounced. One of my favorite college instructors talked about how many people “feared ambiguity.” They could not sit in that space of uncertainty, lack of clarity for even a moment. Its too terrifying for some. I used to need an “opinion,” strongly held, immovable. But, what I’ve learned, as I’ve grown, is that not everything is clearly definable. As I’ve grown stronger, I’ve become less dependent on knee-jerk ideological stances that don’t breathe. I’m not afraid of not knowing, or allowing others to do what they feel they need to do. Its no threat to me.

    Do I think my ex-wife is a racist scumbag? You bet. Do I think that a part of why I married her was due to self hate, internalized racism – well of course. However, there were other factors that led to us having a relationship. What’s interesting is that for you, there are no nuances – its black and white. Nothing else matters at all, orr exists even but race.

    And it is that “whitewashing” that is rooted in the very system you claim to decry. This is how white folks do and did us. And if you are unwilling or unable to discern nuance, you’re like a surgeon performing surgery with a butter knife – its a crude instrument that ultimately does more damage than good, because of its dullness and inability to differentiate tissue from muscle and muscle from bone.

    A scalpel is required in delicate surgery every now and then.

    If your opinion of your father informs your opinions as they relate to interracial dating, etc, you might consider how your bitter view of Pops skews your world view, rather than enlarging or accurately depicting it.

  12. Oh, and another thing: it feels/seems like you are trying to create a clarity, concreteness within yourself that because of who and what you are – from your basic origins – doesn’t truly exist. I mean, if you were a coal-black African, I’d be relating to your position a bit differently. But your literal experience is that you are born of the very same thing that you have come to despise. You are like a fine sculpture fire-scarred in a racist kiln. And your message is really one of hate for those who, like your mother and father, crossed the invisible racial divide and BAM! Created you!! Is it not clearly and manifestly “self-hate” projected outward, that you are actually flinging at me and others like me? After all, I didn’t do anything that your own father didn’t do. And if you hate your father you have to hate yourself. As Malcolm said, “you can’t hate the fruit and not hate the tree.”

  13. Maxjulian said…
    RR: Your need for pat, rigid answers, it seems, is quite pronounced…What’s interesting is that for you, there are no nuances – its black and white. Nothing else matters at all, orr exists even but race.

    I’m sure I’ve seen references to Neely Fuller on this blog -he has said, “If you do not understand White Supremacy (Racism) What it is, and how it works everything else that you understand, will only confuse you.”
    If you agree with this theory I would have thought you would be more open to my arguments…

    If your opinion of your father informs your opinions as they relate to interracial dating, etc, you might consider how your bitter view of Pops skews your world view, rather than enlarging or accurately depicting it.

    If that’s want you want to believe, by all means, believe it…I’ve recently relocated from the UK – 50% of black men there choose white partners – so I think i’ve come across plenty of other black men who prefer white women ie I have not just been influenced by my father.

    I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree…who knows – maybe you’ll change your mind in 10/20 years…

  14. RR, The question is not whether we will agree to disagree but: are you even open to considering, and, sure that you see the full scope of R/WS in yourself? You make it sound like you have pruned the weeds from your garden. No more work for you, which belies your stance as “developing” your views. If you want to believe that, you can; but perhaps it will be you in 10-20 years who will have the awakening. I’d rather wake up now.

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  16. slycivilian wrote: “Exactly. Getting free isn’t an event, it’s a process. There might be some important moments along the way, but i never trust people who “see the light” and think that’s it.”

    And maxjulian responded: “Well said. Very well said.”

    But maxjulian later wrote: “…it will be you in 10-20 years who will have the awakening. I’d rather wake up now. ”

    This suggests that maxjulian, contrary to slycivilian’s position, will have a point (and soon) of epiphany, of resolution, of certainty, of waking up now. So, will you soon awaken, maxjulian, or can you bear uncertainty?

    You stated that you’re “not afraid of not knowing,” but your words suggest otherwise.

  17. Anon: My conception of “awakening” is that it is a process. It is neverending. You have an awakening, an insight, that leads to a temporary reordering of thought and then what? Another, and another and perhaps another. I try to stay open to the moment, just as the jazz musician stays open to the improvised note he’d never thought of until that second. It ain’t necessarily definitive; but it can be amazing (Kind of Blue?).

    Certain conceptions will have more staying power than others. That’s life. But you’re dead if you sleep through all the information out there that can potentially expand your view. If you believe in the mastery of life/thought, which is a very European conception by the way…You’d share the view of UnR.

    Will I soon awaken? I awaken just about every day. And some days, I don’t, and its alright. I ain’t forcing it.

  18. Okay. That’s well parried.

    So, since you’re always awakening, forever sliding out of bed butt-naked and beautiful, slip into this thought: is it good form to post another’s person’s face on your blog (and lay siege to their thoughts) when you don’t/won’t post your own face?

  19. RR said:
    “Why thank you for the predictable psychobabble with regard to my situation. If it makes you feel less threatened to believe I am a fucked-up, confused, mixed-race person with an “underlying disdain for Black men”, by all means, believe this. I do indeed have an underlying disdain for integration-hungry/ self-hating black/brown men (and women)(especially those who proclaim themselves to be pro-black) – oh, and I have a disdain for white liberals as well…hopefully that should cover all the asinine bloggers who no doubt will comment here in due course.”

    I rest my case.

    Maxjulian: your comment about “feared ambiguity” reminded me of this quote:

    “Being desirable means being comfortable with your own ambiguity. The most ambiguous reality is that we are flesh and spirit at the same time. Within everyone is light and shadow, good and evil, love and hate. In order to be truthful, you must embrace your total being. A person who exhibits both positive and negative qualities, strengths and weaknesses is not flawed, but complete.”

    Keep on with your “process of awakening” Brother.

  20. Thanks, Asabagma. When a person can’t exhibit, or worse yet, doesn’t have any flaws or weaknesses their willing to acknowledge, but can point out all of yours with relish…RUN! Run, especially if it ain’t God! That lesson begins with ME! And it ends with me. I won’t subject anyone on this blog, or anywhere to scrutiny that I’m not willing to train on myself…and far, far more.

  21. PW: That’s like me saying, “I find it problematic to be pro-women and carry on romantic heterosexual relationships with men.”

    “I may not have gay sex, because that’s not how I roll, but what do I look like telling someone who does or has that – there’s something “a little off about that?””

    Who are you?

    I find that ridiculous. It seems to me that posture is designed to make you feel a little more superior/righteous; but if you need it, go for it.

    i’m sorry you feel my “posture” is making you feel like i’m attempting to be superior. i’m not. i’m stating my opinion, just as you state yours.

    i personally don’t understand how a man/woman can be pro-black & sleep with, carry on relationships with, and marry a non-black person. not saying you have to hate whitey, but inviting them into your bed seems a bit hypocritical to me (note:”your” is being used in a general way here).

    btw: your example of someone being pro-woman & still sleeping with men isn’t the same, considering that would bring the question of sexualty into play, which is a totally different animal.

    whomever you choose to carry on relationships is your business, however…if you were out there beating a red, black and green drum with your fist in the air preaching about black love, black people, and the black community…all while you’re sleeping with Becky, i’d HAVE to look at you sidewaysv(no?).

    that’s like being a minister & preaching family values, but sleeping sleeping with someone on the side.

    feel me?

    if it works for you, let it work for you. but i would have to take your “conscious” words with a grain of salt.

  22. PW Said: i personally don’t understand how a man/woman can be pro-black & sleep with, carry on relationships with, and marry a non-black person. not saying you have to hate whitey, but inviting them into your bed seems a bit hypocritical to me (note:”your” is being used in a general way here).

    {I appreciate your clarity here; one doesn’t necessarily have to understand or accept anything. I think that’s honest of you. But, PW, can you do me a favor and define what”pro-black” means and what the criteria for being pro-black are?}

    PW Said: btw: your example of someone being pro-woman & still sleeping with men isn’t the same, considering that would bring the question of sexualty into play, which is a totally different animal.

    {People are people. Black people fucking white folks ain’t like people having sex with sheep; we can reproduce. We’re human beings with big fucking problems. My example above is absurd, because on one level, the whole issue is absurd, though its highly rationale on a whole nother level. Racism/White supremacay is an absurdist, yet highly rationale system; but not everyone who benefits from it or who is subjugated by it responds like a marionette. I’m pro-people. I love people, in spite of being fucked by them – blacks as well as whites and ‘others’. I hate what’s being done to us and I do my part to try to stop it.

    Now, I tried to “fit-in” and conform for years. And I hated it. What I learned is, if I’m trying to be black, or be Muhammed Ali, I’m being phony; and if I’m trying to be white I’m a bigger phony. Plus, both sides will judge and belittle you no matter what you do, so you’re better off being your fucking self and learning to love it. So I learned.

    We were never taught who to date and who not to date. The schools we went to introduced us to a variety of people. And I must say, as someone who has dated many different women, the “EXPERIENCE” of doing so has been amazing.

    Some of us are positioned to or, perhaps, have to trod that zigzag path. I did and I don’t regret it}

    whomever you choose to carry on relationships is your business, however…if you were out there beating a red, black and green drum with your fist in the air preaching about black love, black people, and the black community…all while you’re sleeping with Becky, i’d HAVE to look at you sidewaysv(no?).

    {Well, sister, I’ve never beat any drum, and I don’t generally wear red, black and green suits, nor do shout through bullhorns how much I “luvs black people.” But I do. And you can look at me sideways when I’m hangin’ with Becky, though I ain’t dating one right now. I’ve dated white women and black, and I married a white woman and had a kid with her. I have a black girlfriend and I want to marry her. I’ve made mistakes in picking women and most of those mistakes were cuz I was doing the picking. But how many black exclusively dating people could say the same?

    The life I was given and the experiences I’ve had probably aren’t anything like yours; I just don’t believe in making folks fit my nigga cookie cutter and I’m not gonna fit theirs. And in spite of how racist the white race is, I can’t for the life of me see them ALL as beasts, as racial lepers, as untouchables…I can’t do it. I can’t hate them – ALL – though I have days where I feel like I do.

    They are human, highly flawed but human. I can’t forget how, when I was getting sober, several of them saved my fucking life. For that reason, I will not do to them what they have done to us: put them in a neat box and file it away. Fuck that. I have stay open; I don’t trust most of them, but I have to stay open in order to stay human.}

    that’s like being a minister & preaching family values, but sleeping sleeping with someone on the side.

    feel me?

    {What you’re saying there, it seems to me, is my so-called pro-black values are negated by my “dabblings with Debbie.” Look, Sis, I believe in justice. I believe in reparations. I’ve read too much black and white US history to know that we’ve been fucked. I just don’t see how we draw these hard and fast lines when so many of us have white relative – mothers, fathers, nieces, nephews, cousins. The UnRealists own mother is white; what kind of backflips does she have to make in order to be a “white hating/black man hating nationalist?” Talk about contorted.

    I’m black (and human) whether anybody likes it or not. Black is not a color, or a “code of conduct;” its who I was born AND what I identify with. Like I said, if who you USED to fuck gets one banished from the race, so long Malcolm! I’m in good company.}

    PW Said: if it works for you, let it work for you. but i would have to take your “conscious” words with a grain of salt.

    {You should take everybody’s words with a grain of salt, shouldn’t you? That is an indicator of what I mean; some charlatan wearing the right clothes, talking the right talk can get away with murder with us, cuz we have some shallow, symbolic criteria for what blackness/pro-blackness is that any con-man can read. Complex truth never has sold well. I say we’re all black who say we are; what say you, PW?}

  23. My thought is if you are pro Black & have a White partner you are leading a double life. I doubt very seriously if a white partner will fully understand our plight, thus you cannot communicate with them on hot topics that they cannot experience.

    I hope I am making since.

    I have white friends & when I kick it with them on racial topics, they just don’t get it so I can just imagine that a white spouse would be just as clueless causing me more frustration.

    Peace,
    Bygbaby

  24. in lieu of a trackback…i discussed my reaction further here.

    Thanks for the inspiration.

  25. i wrote a long posting, but blogger is acting wack so it never showed up.

    um, what exactly is pro-black?

  26. Bygbaby,

    When I was with my ex- there were moments where I couldn’t be myself entirely, when I put my voice on mute, hesistated in a way I never would have with a sister. Double life is a stretch but…there was definitely a way that I was compromised or neutralized, even though I was very active politically and racially conscious. In fact, I became racially conscious in a much more profound way which led, thankfully, to the demise of my marriage.

    I’ll tell you one thing: I came out of that relationship so much more conscious of the depth and subtlety of racism/white supremacy. To suspect something is different from knowing it, which is different from living it. I saw deceit from the front seat and as fucked up as it is/was, I learned lessons I’ll never forget and hope never to relive.

    Peace

  27. Nubian,

    I want to know what was in your long post.

  28. The UK from what I can figure out is more stratified than the U.S. I can see why, to someone from there, it could seem to be a contradiction in terms to be able to keep some sort of Black identity, while also having relationships of whatever kind with white people.

    The US is messed up, but not in that exact way. Situations vary a lot here, and you have to have a whole lot of contextual information before you can say for sure what somebody’s choices “mean” about who they are.

    I like the ‘decoding’ term, too.

  29. Huh. You know, I don’t think sexuality is at all a whole different thing. Not at all. We have this exact same argument in radical feminism/lesbian separatism and we have had it for 50 years: can you call yourself a feminist and sleep with men? And lots of women who have understood themselves to be heterosexual have indeed stopped sleeping with men, divorced men, remained celibate or taken up with women (as “political lesbians”) using exactly this reasoning. I do think it’s easier to see some things clearly when you are a separatist (rhetorical “you”). But I also think het feminists have done and are doing some really good work in their relationships with pro-feminist men, who are also doing their own really good work which in the end will benefit all of us. I sure wouldn’t take it upon myself to tell them they weren’t feminists. That’s where things tend to go sideways, and, as progressives in our various movements, we end up split, divided from one another, and ineffective. We all need one another as allies.

    While I’m here I apologize for the typos in my two other posts. (I didn’t know you had all these great discussions going on MaxJulian!) I didn’t proofread, argh.

    Heart

  30. Heart, why didn’t you know I had it going on over here 🙂

    Keeping coming back…. and that goes for all of ya’ll.

  31. I wonder were racial realist’s places a black, Nigerian man like myself in her assessment of interracial relationships?

    What is a black family and how do I create one? How do I assess a black woman’s pro-blackness? What if she just identifies with being black but is not at all/nor cares to be active in anti-racism work? What if her pro-blackness is limited to the US and she does not care for the part of me that is Yoruba nor is she really interested in investing in the development of the rural African communities I’ve worked in from Nicaragua to Kenya (since exported racism is not an issue here in the US)?

    Or should I in the words of my mother marry a Yoruba woman who is more familiar with my culture and understands the struggle of being an immigrant and a black person in the US?

    These are not tongue in cheek answers but the realities of my experience dating a variety of black women. I am not saying that all non-Nigerian, non-Yoruba Black women are like the above discriptions nor am I advocating dating a white woman as the solution. I feel as if RR comments fail to address the complexities of black folks and relationships as well as the variety of black identities involved in the process.

    Sewere

  32. Last paragraph, I meant to say “These are not tongue in cheek questions.”

    My last issue is with RR is why she constructs interracial relationships as only black and white, why not black and the multitude of ethnicities within the communities of Native American, Asian, Latino, Middle Eastern, Pacific Islander and the indigenous peoples of Australia, Brazil, North Africa etc?

    To continue my thread of questions, should I then be suspect of puertorican woman who identifies as mestizo-black (mestizo = mixed European indigenous heritage) because her grandmother was Irish? But what if we met as a result of her work in the development of indigenous and African communities of Central America?

    Sewere

  33. Anon: RR is the product of an interracial relationship: an African (I believe Nigerian) and a white woman (British). The fact that she is obsessed with the black/white paradigm, and has the most “fire” around the black male/white female dynamic, makes sense.

    There isn’t a lot of complexity to her discussion, yet, I suspect because she is working out her family dysfunction through the conversation. She’s completely estranged from her father (so I’m told) and thus her fixation on the white/black deal.

    Anon, you raise some very critical points, ones that I need to think more about.

  34. Free, I’m not trying to be funny, but I am quite interested in how someone, as you described yourself in college, hooked up with a white woman. Again, I’m not trying to incite a debate or hint at anything about you… Nor am I trying to reopen this conversation… The student in me is just curious.

    BTW: Now, I see why it was so easy for you to box you know who on your blog. You’ve been swinging punches for a long time. For the record, I love strong debate. I just hate to see hatred rearing its ugly head when two people disagree. This is what I observed the other day.

    Angie

  35. Angie,

    I am still alive and not set in my ways. Constantly exploring growing, changing. Sometimes moving forward, sometimes backwards. I like the image of Yeats that life is a spiral; that growth is a circular process that spirals upward…if you’re lucky.

    I went through my Nation of Islam moment, hating all white people, to conservative Dem thinking, to apolitical, to anarchistic. What I’ve found is that once you cycle through the shit that’s been implanted in you, if you keep looking, you get a glimpse of you – what you really think and how you really feel.

    The other thing, frankly, is that women are women. If you’re not walking around with a political consciousness 24/7, trying to maintain perfect syncronization between philosophy and deed, if you’re a person for a moment among people, you can slip up and see a woman for a woman, not a black white yellow woman. You could want a woman for her looks, her charms outside of her so called race, or maybe even because of her color, the tension betweenn her color and yours.

    I have lived a life on the border from the very beginning, shot at from both sides of the racial divide. My behavior doesn’t please many white folks or black. But I’m more concerned with being myself more and more each day NOT pleasing other people.

    So, how could I hook up with a white woman? At a moment of openness and blindness, anything is possible. And it was.

  36. Okay… You answered my question, but didn’t really answer. But that’s cool. I understand that somethings cannot be explained. It just ain’t that simple.

    Again, not trying to start nothing. I was just responding to my curiosity…

    The one thing I like about living is being able to unravel the mysteries of our human experience. So many people have many different experiences that I find fascinating. Not that I’m trying to make you feel like a science project… (smile) I just find you to be interesting. That’s it…

    I do have one more question though… I hope this isn’t too personal, being that we all up on the internet and thangs… Your age? You don’t have to be exact. I just wonder what age group you’re in.

    Why do I wonder? Well, it would help me better understand all the cycles you have cycled through. I think you are an X generation child like me. But one can’t be so sure. I kind of wonder if you are much younger than me. But I doubt it though.

    I found that living is the best teacher. Well, it should be… And it seems like life has been teaching you.

    Keep evolving and growing, brotha. I love your quote from your post.

    “I am still alive and not set in my ways. Constantly exploring growing, changing. Sometimes moving forward, sometimes backwards. I like the image of Yeats
    that life is a spiral; that growth is a circular process that spirals upward…if you’re lucky.”

    Have a good one.

  37. How old are you, Angie? I’ll tell you if you tell me first.

    The real answer to your question is, “because I was able to.” I found my ex-wife attractive at the time, interesting. I outgrew that view of her, but she was important for me. I learned some things about myself, about love about race, about life. Relationships are not easy when you are awake/awakening. It is really the degree to which one is awake – to a whole host of things – that determines where you go, who you might interact with. I have no regrets.

  38. Um… Excuse me? Don’t turn my question back on me without giving your answer first. (smile) I told you why I want to know about how old you are. What’s your reason for wanting to know how old I am? Why can’t you just answer the questions, without being slick about it? (smile)

    I’ve already hinted in a previous post on your blog how old I am. You didn’t catch it then? See, you need to play closer attention. LOL

    For the first time in my life, I’m at an age that I feel a little uncomfortable admitting how old I am. I experienced this same strange feeling that washed over me when you asked how old I am, just the other day when one of the secretaries asked me my age. I took a deep breath, lowered my voice, and told her. Her response relieved me. She was shocked to know that I’m that old. She thought I was much younger.

    So, I’ll take another deep breath and disclose to you and whoever is peeking in on our public blog conversation my age. (deep breath)

    (exhale) Well, actually I won’t… Way too personal… Not too personal between us… You and I are cool. But too personal for whomever is tiptoeing through your blog.

    Well, I’m one for disclosure, so I will say this… I was born in the 70’s, grew up in the 80’s, matured in the 90’s, and the turn of the centry ushered in the woman that I am today. My evolution into becoming a woman has been beautiful and painful. But every good and bad thing that I have experience in my passage into womanhood was necessary and vital to my development. It is my prayer that I continue to grow and develop into the woman that I know I’m destined to be. Hopefully, it will be more good experiences than bad that teach me about life and how I should live it. (I think I will write about this on my blog.)

    So, am I to assume that you are not going to disclose your age bracket, because I didn’t specifically tell you how old I am? But that’s cool. It’s not that important. I was just being my typical curious self. Giving you more attention than my school work…

    Brotha, you have a nice night. See you back here or around the way..

    BTW: Thanks for answering my question about your ex. And thanks for not getting on the defense.

    Good night.

  39. No need for hostility… LOL We’re still cool, aren’t we? I hope you didn’t feel like I was bending your arm. I’m just inclined to ask questions. It’s part of who I am from birth. Plus, being in grad school the last couple of years makes me push for more answers. And now, I’m a counselor. So, I’m paid to ask questions.

    (What does all that translate to? Well, to be quite honest, I’m a little nosy at times. LOL Not all the time, but sometimes… Not as nosy as most of my friends, and certainly not as nosey as they want me to be. But when I do ask questions there’s always a reason why I seek information. It was the content of your blog that caused me to wonder more about you, specificly your age.)

    Well, since you answered with such specificity, I guess I’ll be specific. I’m 32, soon to be 33. (It was hard for me to type that second number. I’m exhaling now. LOL)

    If you don’t want the world (any visitors to your blog) to see our little numbers, you’re perfectly welcomed to not post these little exchanges between us. That’s certainly cool by me. LOL I won’t be mad.

    Free, have a good day. I’ll catch you later. And for the record, to maintain cool between us, I promise to keep the personal questions trapped in my head from now on. Okay…

    Peace

    Angie

  40. 33. Lawd have mercy! You’re still a child. I’m not worried about other people knowing how old I am. So I’ll leave our little discussion up for now. I didn’t know you were a lawyer too. You had me sweating answering these questions. But keep on asking if you like.

    Take care, lady.

  41. Hey… I’m not 33 yet. Can I please have my few weeks of being 32. Thanks… (smile)

    I’m not a lawyer. Should have been. I allowed my visual impairment to get in the way of that little dream. Oh well…

    When I said counselor, I meant psych counselor. Well, that’s at least what I’m doing right now. I specialize in helping people with short and long term disabilities cope, find independence, and reenter the workforce.

    You have a good one…

  42. I’m back with more questions and comments about this subject. I hope you’re not shaking your head with disgust. (smile) Brace yourself, it’s a little long.

    You know how I said I thought you were an X-Generation child. Well, even though you’re so much OLDER than me (LOL), you are indeed an X-child. I recognized some X-flavor. The way you reference hip hop lyrics and just some other things made me wonder about your age group. Free, you barely made the cut. But you did. (smile)

    “According to generation researchers Neil Howe and William Strauss, Generation X includes anyone born from 1960 to 1978 in North America.”

    Well, I was talking to a couple of my friends about the post that started this thread of comments. Well, my best friend that lives here in Houston was outraged that you were once married to a white woman. She started flying off the handle and such. I told her that you were divorced. She was still disturbed that you chose a white woman to be your wife. It was funny to me how worked up she got over a man that she and I both don’t know. (That’s how deep this thing runs…)

    To be real, I was shocked that she came down so hard on you. She really didn’t want to give you any room to wiggle into her good graces.

    I’m going to admit that I, the so called fair Angie, pretty much turn my nose up at brothas that are with white women. (I’m just being honest.) But I don’t feel like a black man being with a white woman is a reason to permanently dismiss the brother from the love and protection of his community.

    I will say this that I am a little interested in how, you at your age, could stumble upon a white woman and think that would be a good idea. But if you really did love her for her, and not for her being a white her, I understand. I am against brothas dating white women for the soul purpose of having a white woman. I’m for anyone hooking up with who they love.

    I think black women think that a black man getting with a white woman is a form of betrayal that can never be forgiven. Sadly, most brothers have to live out that criticism for life. I’m so sorry that you do. I don’t think it is fair.

    Free, reading your post really made me sit down and think about this thing from both sides. Is it possible for a black man to look at a white woman and just see her has a woman, as you put it? Hmmm…. Maybe…. I don’t know… I’m inclined to say no. But I have certainly been wrong on many occasions. White women are women too. Like you said, “Women are women.” It sounds a little “caveman”, but it’s true all day long.

    So, tonight I thought I should bring it up to my best friend that lives in LA. Well, she didn’t come down on you so hard. She felt that love is love and we should just love who we can. She said that she understood how you, in a moment of complete openness, found yourself interested/curious/in love with a white woman. She also wasn’t shocked that you are a “down for the cause” brotha. She and I both have noticed that a lot of “black fist” brothas find a non-white woman to connect with. Why? I don’t know… Have you noticed that?

    I told her how the sistas on this blog have questioned your pro-black stance because of your little twist with the white woman. Well, she said something that really struck me. She said that pro-black does not mean anti-white. Ding, ding, ding…

    It hit me all of the sudden. Why should someone that is willing to love and accept his people through the good, bad, and ugly be expected to prove his love by hating white people? It’s a little outrageous. And it’s actually kind of stupid. It is possible to love black people and not hate white people. And especially if we do what Francis says: Look at ourselves as humans, rather than members of racial groups, we will certainly understand how a person can fall in love with someone of a different skin color. It is indeed possible for a person to connect with another person because of what we possess on the inside, not what’s on the outside.

    I need to think about this a little more… I just wanted you to know that I am indeed thinking… And that’s good. Before I stumbled upon this conversation, my thinking about this subject was pretty much on a one way street.

    Okay, here’s my question, and it’s definitely OT… Since you hate Portland so much, do you think you will leave and move elsewhere?

    You said I can ask. LOL

  43. In answer to your question, as long as my daughter lives here, I ain’t going nowhere.

    Reading about your friend who gave me a hard time: she didn’t give me a hard time. I would submit that when the world is as black and white as it is for her, she has swallowed the teachings of white people. The world as dichotomy. Whites stick with whites, blacks stick with blacks. To me, that’s insane: White Insanity. Bought, reactively by black people.

    My preference is to be with a woman of color, but not just because she is a woman of color…because her consciousness as a woman of color gives her the possibility of seeing more deeply the world around her. There are a lot of beautiful women who are white black, Japanese, etc…. Beautiful. I’m not going to blind myself to that. Though I know that most whites will NEVER see the world that I see, I will never say that there are none who could. Likewise, me and your girlfriend could never date because she has adopted the paradigm that has been inflicted on us.

    Too many of us have taken the racism/white supremacy that we’ve learned from white people, ground it up into intellectual soulfood and then promote it as some kind of black truism. They don’t look at what the root of this thinking is, its just comfort food for the rejected and despised who want to return it in kind.

    WE are the ones who have been most humane, we are the ones who KNOW that we are all human. We and other indigenous people welcomed the white man to our land because we believed that they had similar attributes to us. But they had a black and white outlook and it was critical for them to corral people into color-coded boxes.

    People who think in boxes are whites in black face. There is no difference. You can’t box people with these assumptions without killing yourself spiritually. I guarantee you that in spite of any “position” that I take regarding any person or group, I meet them live in my life as individual, with prejudices, but also with an open mind. I’m not hanging with people who only see people as cardboard cutouts and can’t see nuance and kill the humanity in themselves as they condemn others.

    Voila.

  44. I loved this: “Too many of us have taken the racism/white supremacy that we’ve learned from white people, ground it up into intellectual soulfood and then promote it as some kind of black truism. They don’t look at what the root of this thinking is, its just comfort food for the rejected and despised who want to return it in kind.” The Free Slave

    Wow! That was wonderful writing and wonderful thinking.

    Yes, you write articles, but why not books?

    I got you for not wanting to leave Portland because of your child. I’m not married, and don’t have anykids. But I’m in love with my sister’s children. I use to always vow that as soon as I could get the opportunity to bounce from Houston, I was going to be on the first thing moving out of this city. But when my mother had her stroke, I vowed that I would at least stay in Houston while she was living. And then, I would hit it as soon as I made sure she was resting comfortably and living in a world different from our own. (Hence, the reason why I am not at Howard working on my PHD… I know some may frown on my choice, but I don’t live for them. I live for me.)

    But after I fell in love with my nieces, my nephew, and more in love with my daddy, I cannot leave this place that I have now adopted as my home. And if I do leave, I need to have enough money in the bank that I can get on a plane and get back here any time I feel a urge to come.

    So, if I feel like that about my babies and they ain’t even my very own, then I know how you feel. Plus, if her mother is the way you describe her, I would never leave Portland. And if she moves to another city, I would be packing my stuff to go too. Yes, she might think you are stalking her, but whatever… You are looking out for the little mommy.

    What does “Voila” mean? You know I’m not as hip as you guys are. LOL

    Angie

    After I do some cleaning, I’m coming back here to my desk to hit you up. I wanted to tell you about a conversation I had with this sista about skin color.

  45. Voila mean “there”, “there it is,””there you are.”

    People don’t realize how they conspire to deaden their brains, deaden their spirits. They feel strong, the more ignorant and myopic they are.

    I appreciate your engaging with me like this. You’re teaching me, helping learn my story better. What are you getting out of this?

  46. (Lord, have mercy… I’m so verbose. Forgive me.)

    What am I getting out of this? The opportunity to think, to think about something that I would have never otherwise thought about, and to learn from someone that is so inclined to share his personal experiences with me and the world.

    Blogging has been good for me, because I have learned so much about myself and how I choose to project myself to others. While writing about my experiences, I’m amazed by some of my own experiences and how it has effected me.

    But I also love blogging, because I have learned so much about people. Yes, I love blogging about political and social issues. But the student/human in me loves to read about a person and their journey through this thing we call life.

    A little something else about me… I am a lover of public discourse. That’s why I love blogging. But even more than that, I love interpersonal communication. I love to sit down and exchange with someone through the channels of communication. Remember, I love to unravel the mysteries of our human experience. And you can only truly do that by sitting and engaging with someone in conversation.

    That’s why I majored in Communications in undergrad and graduate school. I love the power to connect with other humans through communication.

    Here’s a secret… When I travel to different blogs, I often wonder who is the real person sitting behind their computer screen. I often wish I could truly connect with the people that we talk to basically everyday. (I basically feel like I know the folks that I talk to everyday on Skep’s site. When I got my job, those people on that site wished me well. And I truly felt the love.)

    When I run across personal posts like yours, I stop, read, and think. When Field wrote about his experience he had with the sister that had an abortion, I stopped for a moment and tried to feel what he feels as it concerns that situation. When Asa tels me he hopes to be a good daddy like mine, I stop and add my prayers with his. That’s what being human is all about, thinking, feeling, connecting, and interacting.

    This blogging stuff is so interesting. If I ever get my PHD in communications, I plan to research this blogging thing. I wonder how disconnected and/or connected blogging really makes us. I wonder how is it possible to give a damn about people that you only exchange a few words with via a blog post. I think it’s because at the end of the day we’re all human.

    (Free, if it’s okay with you, I will probably use part of this particular post that I just wrote, add to it, and post it on my blog. Okay…)

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