From Ruth…With Love?!

“I left a comment about your sexism a few weeks ago and you asked for some evidence on your sexism. You are a man, are you not? Then you are sexist. That’s a start. Then there’s your post on what you want from a future girlfriend wherein you outline that she should be of a certain shape and size, love sucking your dick and generally serve your needs. I’m posting here, not because I think there is much use in pointing out your sexism to you, but because I followed a link from a blog I read and it seems that some of the bloggers (women) I read comment here. I wonder why none of these women have called you up on your sexism.”

  • Why aren’t you women readers of my blog calling me on my sexism?
  • How is wanting a woman as a partner – physically, intellectually, emotionally, spiritually – and her wanting me just the same, sexism?
  • Am I really a hopeless sexist or do you have some other axe to grind? Did I call you on your racism and this is quid pro quo?
  • ‘I am a man/All men are sexist/Therefore, I am sexist.’ Correct?
  • Does my race mitigate against my sexism, or are all men truly created sexistly equal?
  • Ruth, are you a white person?
  • Are you a racist?
  • Do you hate black people?
  • Could the fact that some of the women who comment here AND on the blog that brought you here recognize something that you don’t?

Love, Julian

28 Responses to “From Ruth…With Love?!”

  1. Julian,

    I did leave you my e-mail address so you could have just written to me.

    I’m white and Julian, you simply don’t ask a white person ‘are you racist?’. What you ask is ‘how racist are you?’ No, I don’t hate black people and I don’t understand why you ask me that. The women who comment on your blog and the one that brought me here most certainly do recognise things that I don’t – of course they do, but where are you going with this?

    Your failure to admit to your own sexism does not make you any less sexist and yes, all men are sexist. You, in particular, have demonstrated your sexism by describing a future partner according to how she may best meet your own needs, including her appearance (breasts, lips, toes) and which sexual acts she will perform on you. Take my word for it, you are sexist.

    No I don’t have any other axe to grind. In fact, you probably don’t score very high on the sexism scale so I’d be better off criticising men that are far worse, but I’ve already explained why I’m here. I do get defensive when someone calls me out on my racism – just as you got defensive when I called you out on your sexism. That doesn’t stop me from seeking out the blogs of women of colour to figure out how I can be less white/privileged. I don’t comment on those blogs because I figure those women want their own space, in the same way that I don’t want men on my blog.

    Basically, I was really disappointed to find that the women who’s blogs I read could come over here and commend you on posts that were overtly sexist. I don’t understand your question about your own race and your sexism.

    Ruth

  2. Hi,
    I’m a long time reader, first time commenter on your blog…
    I didn’t think your list of what you were looking for in a partner was sexist because besides the physical needs which Ruth was so keen on zeroing in on, you were looking for someone who loved you and matched you also emotionally and mentally.

    Secondly, I don’t buy the argument that because you’re a male automatically you’re sexist. If I blamed all men by the mistakes and wrong actions of a few, then what kind of person would I be or what kind of life would I live?
    I think either Ruth actually thinks you’re a knuckle dragging sexist or she may be calling you that to undermind anything productive you might think or say…(Seen that previlant in nubian’s blog lately as well)
    Most people can’t deal with someone being blunt and forthwith and honest about things. But, I enjoy reading your blog and seeing your point of view, and as a young woman, I don’t find you sexist at all. I say, keep doing what you do, don’t let trolls and haters stand in your way or let negativity stop you from letting your voice be heard. Sorry if this comment was long,
    Thanks…

  3. Ruth,
    I am (almost) starting to feel sorry for you.

    You leave an offensive declaration on MJ’s blog
    and then expect a nice private email?

    Then, you repeatedly declare and try to define
    who MJ is, even though you don’t understand what
    you are saying.

    For some reason you seem to confuse sexuality
    with sexism and erroneously confuse sexism
    as a man only thingie instead of trying to understand
    that women can be just as sexist as men, and in fact,
    often support and defend sexism.

    I suggest you look up some of the words you are
    using in a dictionary and also, please, when
    you are feeling ignorant, why not ask a polite
    question?

  4. Ruth, I’m very curious how you think I should have described the partner I seek. (BTW: I didn’t just email you directly because I felt this was an important issue to raise on this blog)

    How could I have framed my post on my soulmate in a less sexist manner? Is finding certain physical attributes in a woman appealing, or desiring a woman physically, sexist? Or is it desiring particular body parts that makes me sexist?

    Was I supposed to describe everything that I wanted to DO for my soulmate, instead of describing the kind of person I am looking for?

    As Shadowlady indicated (and welcome and keep coming back:), I don’t want a ‘blow-up doll;’ I want a full-fledged, well rounded, free standing human being – a peer. Did you not read the other attributes that I was seeking? Or do you have a hang up with sexuality that allowed you to miss the other 3/4 of the post I wrote?

    I don’t think its wrong at all to desire sex and intellect and maturity and creativity and silliness and voluptuousness, etc.

    You called me out on my sexist-ness without demonstrating any. Can you define what sexism is for you? Or is ‘man’ simply a synonym for ‘sexist,’ requiring nothing more than the charge?

    I asked you: “Does my race mitigate against my sexism, or are all men truly created sexistly equal?”

    You didn’t answer that question and I don’t think I believe you when you say you don’t have some other axe to grind – with me, or perhaps with men/black men. I say that because if I’m a Nigga, which I am, AND, I control NONE of the sexist institutions that plague Planet Earth – what is your REAL beef?!

    I do believe that all white people *as a group* are “racist suspects” as described on the website, “The Code.Net.” However in spite of that, I try to take each individual human being as they come and try to experience them with as little judgement as I possibly can. Challenging to say the least.

    Again, welcome Shadowlady and please comment at your pleasure.

  5. “what is your REAL beef?!”

    Good question.

    My beef is with the people who misuse the vocabulary of anti-oppression as to perpetrate crude slander.

    Why?

    I would NOT have made progress against my oppressive socialization if the point of dealing with people who hold such beliefs was to ‘get’ them with a slandering label.

    My hunch is that the charges levied against Max by Ruth are ‘trumped up’ in a crude and most noxious attempt to discredit his ideas.

    (You know, it’s the idea that counts, not the brain it was thought on)

    Oh max, I just got over my template paranoia. You are now linked. I apologize for the delay.

  6. Damnit-Clampett, its about time. I was about to sentence you to template purgatory behind that little oversight. Thank God you came through, finally.

    I’m still waiting for Ruth to add some substance to her charge.

    Momi, I like what you said about confusing sexism with sexuality. I mean, am I crazy or did I merely state my preferences. Did I ask for a veiled woman, walking a foot behind me, on a leash?!

    Damn!

  7. Max, when I read your original post about what you want in a woman, and I read the warnings, I thought you overwarned. I didn’t read things that perturbed me. You struck me as a randy man. Still do. And there’s nothing wrong with celebrating sensation and so much that’s right with it. We live so briefly. Why not LIVE?

    I noted that you like to lick pussy in addition to wanting a woman that likes dick. That sounds like sexual equity to me. And it sounds like a full-grown man who has the wherewithal to articulate his sexual desires. That’s sexy to me, a man who can say what he wants.

    Like you, I suspect that Ruth has a hidden agenda. Heck, we all have a hidden agenda, but I suspect that Ruth’s is tied to race. This isn’t always an easy blog for white folks to visit. I’m much more conscious of my racism since coming here and that isn’t an easy consciousness. And I’m much more distrusting of my seeming goodness. Your words lodge in me and complicate my life and I can see why someone would want to distract her self and others from your poignant, righteous issues.

    Ruth, women stand beside Max because he deserves it.

    Standing beside Max,

    Holly Capote

  8. Holly, besides being an excellent writer, I like how you think, even when I don’t agree. Cuz I know you have the grounding to work shit through – and that’s a rare quality regardless of color. Thanks Capolly

  9. Holly, you rock!!

    I dunno, I think it was max-below-the-belt’s input that freaked her out. Momi, you’re right!! I recognize that humans with dicks like blowjobs. That’s how it was, is, that’s how it’s gon’ be.

    Max, your honest, introspective, giving and worthy of the kind of partner you want. I see nothing wrong with that. It comes with maturity (& at least one catastrophe of a relationship under your belt)!

    I remember the first time you posted it and thought that it takes a lot of guts to reveal your heart’s & headS’ desires.

  10. “Your heart’s & headS'” desires”?

    To quote Austin Powers, “Oh, behave!”

    No, don’t. And you rock too, with such playful prose.

    Max, thanks. I can reverse my current. It creates all sorts of psychic whirlpools, but I can do it.

    Ruth, one more thing…

    You wrote about Max: “Take my word for it, you are sexist.”

    “Take my word for it,….” isn’t justification. And it doesn’t honor Max’s intellect. Do you think he’s not smart enough to comprehend your rationale? Or do you lack the faculty to construct a cogent justification?

    Max will draw his cerebral sword and meet you in cyber-combat, but you can’t say, “Hey. I have a sword. And I could draw it and even though I won’t, I still won.”

    Max, I don’t post as much because I’ve been very, very, very busy. I even nap twice a day now: that’s how draining my regimen is. And it’s going to get worse. We’ve been setting up all sorts of tv and personal appearances and I’ll soon be on the road…and when that happens, don’t think it’s you.

  11. HI MaxJ

    this is interesting. When I visited your blog this evening, I first saw your post on what you’re looking for in a woman (which I have read before at your old blog) – before I saw this post about Ruth’s letter to you. My initial reaction when I re-read your list was that you were looking for a woman who has certain characteristics physically, is smart and independent, likes sex, and is a true soul mate. I did feel slightly uncomfortable because it sounds a bit like a laundry list of stuff you want in a woman – and says nothing of what you are able/willing to offer in return. For me, this instinctual reaction has to do with my own past personal relationship (one in particular), in which I was the person always giving and doing my best to be a wonderful partner and my lover did not do the same. Then, I took a moment to consider my own “laundry list” of qualities I am looking for in a mate – and how else could I present it but in the same sort of way you did? How could I say differently that I want X and Y and Z in a mate? And I do indeed have such a mental list. IT’s clear and complete. Also, I remembered a second post you made at your old blog, wondering whether or not you could consider allowing yourself to fall for a white woman – I believe you thought you would if you thought she was THE ONE for you. I take this list of yours to be a wish list of sorts, an ideal, but flexible, that you are keeping your mind open to other possibilities. This is also how I view my own list – fluid. Perhaps the only further underlyingly sexist thing about your list I can see is that the image you draw of your ideal mate is a very traditionally feminine one, and femininity is itself seriously oppressive to women. (I wrote a post about this some time ago, if you haven’t read it, here’s the link: Feminine Beauty

    Then I read this post with Ruth’s comments.

    I understand what Ruth is getting at with the comment that all men are sexist. All men are conditioned, through masculinity (which all men are taught, regardless of race, ethnicity, sexuality, class, etc.), to be sexist (and homophobic/heterosexist too by the way). Men are taught to reject and disassociate themselves from femininity in all and any form in order to be masculine. The only acceptable association with femininity is in an intimate relationship – Men are encouraged to be homosocial. Many men do reject these encoded behaviours once they learn more about gender and female oppression – just as many white people reject the racism they are taught once they learn more about racial oppression. But these patterns are deeply ingrained. They often rear their ugly heads, even when we think we’ve got them all under control. Can a man ever be truly free from sexist behaviours? I don’t know. I think so. I hope so. Can a white person ever be truly free from racism? I don’t know. I hope so. I also wrote a post about this, too: Men and Feminism

    To answer your question about whether your race mitigates against sexism (without, of course, putting words in Ruth’s mouth), I would say no, it does not. Despite not being able to control or have power over social structures that continue to oppress, because those systems were desgined by and for white men and you are a black man, it is not ever an impediment for you to be a man. You may be discriminated against on the basis of being black, but not on the basis of being male. That will always work in your favour. Social systems that oppress women benefit you as a man – perhaps not as a black man, but as a man (as if we can separate these parts of ourselves like strands of thread from a rope).

    I don’t think that you are intentionally being sexist, Julian. But I don’t disagree with Ruth entirely. Just as you point out ways in which white folks are silently racist sometimes (and it challenges us to think around our social conditioning), I think Ruth is right to point out subtle sexisms that are also a bit like second nature because they are deeply conditioned. I don’t think Ruth is attempting to undermine your ideas, or that she is saying that women can’t be complicit in maintaining systems of gender oppression. I think that pinning Ruth with having a problem with black men is a way of deflecting her point a bit, to be honest. Sorry! I disagree with Ruth, though, because I think that bringing this up isn’t a waste of time and that it will encourage you to think about these things carefully, as you encourage others to do regarding racism. You are a very thoughtful guy, and I have faith that you will not simply brush aside this complaint of Ruth’s, that I share to a degree. I think you are the perfect person to bring this up to, because you are used to thinking critically and you seem receptive to some feminist thought (like mine, for example!). I take what you have to say seriously, as I am trying as hard as I can to not be a white supremicist in my life, so I trust you will also take what I have to say seriously, because I believe you do not intend to be a male sexist in your life.

    I hope this comment is somewhat helpful for this discussion! And, no hard feelings, of course. sorry about the length 🙂

  12. As a woman, when I look at your list the thought that comes to me is: “I would never live up to that.”

    I think the idea that you have so many attributes and qualifiers is what makes me feel uneasy — no so much what you’re seeking sexually.

    Although, just to comment a bit on that — what were to happen if one day your woman was no longer tight?? Is that a deal breaker?

    By the way, I just recently found your site, and I think it’s nice exercise for the mind. Thanks!!

  13. Thinking G. said: “I think Ruth is right to point out subtle sexisms that are also a bit like second nature because they are deeply conditioned.”

    Randomly Speaking:

    Where is the subtle sexism that she’s pointing out? I’m not blowing her or you off; I’m asking her, you or anyone to point to sexism in my posts. Certainly, there is some on this blog somewhere; I just want someone to point it out, AND, tell me why mine is so problematic for them.

    Believe me, a careful reading of my post makes clear that I want a partner, an equal, a real woman of substance. I don’t how I could be any clearer.

    I agree that men are conditioned to be sexist; however, as a black man who has been racially profiled, handcuffed for being a ‘black male,’ I don’t agree with you that my race and gender can be separated. The generations of black men targeted and incarcerated are poor proof of the advantages of black manhood; the fear of THE black man RULES.

    I do take my learning re. my homophobia, my sexism seriously. However, I don’t take every charge seriously if it is not offered with serious intent…meaning with evidence. The other thing which makes me suspicious, is that Ruth has slung her charge and disappeared.

  14. Christina, they aren’t qualifiers per se. I’ve been very influenced by a book recently, “Ask And It Is Given” (Hicks). The idea is you create your own reality. I have experience creating negative realities by default; this book turned me on to “consciously” creating positive realities. I’m trying it and so far: It works.

  15. OK, first, I’ve got to say I laughed out loud when I saw this thread, because I was so glad to see I was not the only one having my blog attacked. I had a few thoughts along the lines of the Thinking Girl’s, but they were pretty much secondary. I also thought, chuckling, this writer is definitely straight, and is not feeling old. But my really serious reaction was, wow! somebody’s going to actually come out with what they want, and not as
    a joke, and without citing formulas! This really stood out, and I thought it was fine.

  16. I haven’t read the original post which I cant find so I am commenting on comments and the Redux post.

    I don’t see why you should have written Ruth an email response – this is a blog after all.

    I go with Holly on this – “I noted that you like to lick pussy in addition to wanting a woman that likes dick. That sounds like sexual equity to me. And it sounds like a full-grown man who has the wherewithal to articulate his sexual desires”. I agree with most of Thinking Girl’s comments in that if I or anyone sat down to write a list on what we would like in a partner it would no doubt be a similar list. On the Redux post I got love and respect for your partner and vice versa which is at it should be real or imagined.

    We continue to live in a world where the norm is white heterosexual and male and I do think that all men are sexist at some level. The important thing is working on that sexism, acknowledging it and making an effort to deal with it. I say the same about white people and racism and straight people and homophobia – acknowledge it, deal with it and reflect on it and move towards changing those feelings. None of us is perfect and none of us is without some prejudice or “ism” – I find it difficult to come to terms with sado / masochism and certain sexual fetishes. I have a friend who has a foot fetish which I cannot understand. I have to ask myself why this is so and work on my feelings. Further comments on the Redux post

  17. Yet one more thing about what Ruth wrote: Ruth doesn’t want men on her blog. If she’s a feminist, she likely believes that gender is a social construct, so why cling to such constructs in cyberspace, where one can develop a new persona, one that might be a better fit for one’s person? I’m not talking about being disingenuous, but being more genuine and not allowing the circumstances of birth to dictate one’s role.

    And whereas I understand the occasional rightness of safe space, where POC gather or women gather or queer folks gather, in otherness, the work is in talking across the rifts. At 50, I’m old enough to remember the justifications for separation back in the 60s and the 70s. There were people who argued that separation was a temporary necessity and this is argued still. I think as respite, separation is fine and serves a noble purpose…and it’s certainly safer than comingling, for mixing it up is dangerous, but if we separate, we’ll soon find new ways to hate within our divided groups.

    Groups hate their Others, but love to have an Other. It saves so much work. Instead of realizing what truly binds the group, they can define themselves by what they aren’t: via the Other.

  18. In regards to what profacero wrote, we all get attacked. Take a stand, prof, and you’ll be attacked. I hate it, but that’s the way it works. No wonder folks are fond of mobs. It’s the ultimate submersion to group will. In a mob, there are no individuals, no one that can be singled out for attack.

  19. I’ve been thinking about this much of the day. I think the best way I can word it is that what makes my feminist radar tingle is that it seems like you are looking for a woman to reflect back to you your own masculinity/male privilege.

    I doubt this is intentional, but as we know many actions/mental frameworks that are harmful/unhelpful are not intentional, but part of a subconsciousness. I think that sexism comes out in interesting and subtle ways in intimate hetero relationships. I don’t think the sexism you display is much more problematic than others’ sexisms, but you seem like a likely target to take the charge seriously. pointing something like this out to a flaming misogynist would do absolutely NO good.

    have you ever read any work by Kimberle Crenshaw? she’s got an interesting theory of intersectional identity. it has to do with how many “but for”‘s a person is away from the mythical norm of white hetero abled christian young thin male. For example, I am that norm, but for being female and christian. You are that norm but for being black (at the least, I don’t know what else might play a part). I liked this framework when I read it. what do you think?

    I agree that being a black man in america is not exactly a position of power. but, being male doesn’t work against you – it is race. Black men are discriminated against in different ways than jewish men or native american men or hispanic men or arab men – there is a tendancy to paint black men as particularly savage, for example, and highly sexualized. but being (a straight) male is still a benefit, compared to being black and female, or black and gay, or black and lesbian. Black men are more of a threat to white men than are black women, or even white women it seems, simply because of masculine power. Women of all non-white races have gender and race working against them, in complex ways that are more than simply a compounded effect of racism and sexism. (This is some of what I’ve learned and studied from non-white and post-colonial feminist theory, and of course everything is always up for debate!)

  20. No, TG, Ruth wondered aloud why women who read this blog don’t call me on my sexism. So, I put the question to the women who read this blog. Period.

    I am a black, male, hetero, non-Christian.

    I again disagree that being male AND black isn’t problematic in this culture, that it doesn’t work against me. What are the mortality figures for black men in this country? The figures for incarceration? Homicide? Aids? Do you think our numbers best those numbers for white females?

    Certainly, being male is not simply a litany of ill-starred moments, cuz we do have some power. But can you really dismiss all of the negatives that a nigga male experiences with a white feminist airbrush?

    We are more of a threat – black men – to the fragile white man, therefore he brings all of his militaristic force to bear against us. Is that some kind of advantage?

    Why do you think they used to castrate black men when they lynched us?

    They still lynch us but instead of sheets, they wear badges or uniforms.

    Can’t go along with you on that homeslice.

  21. Hiya MaxJ

    thanks, again you’re making me think and further define my ideas. thanks for the discussion, and for understanding the place I”m coming from.

    you’re right, being a black man, and challenging white male power, is particularly problematic as it makes black men targets in wasy that other oppressed groups are not. I think the advantage of being a black male might jsut be not being a black female. black women are subjected to oppression particular to being black women – including a higher rate of incarceration than white women, a higher incidence of poverty than black men, a higher incidence of HIV/AIDS than white women. Being a black male – It’s not comparable to being a white woman at all – I didn’t mean to suggest that, because I do think it’s a lot more complicated than that, a shortcoming of Crenshaw’s theory. But it’s not so easy as compartmentalizing people into groups, is it? Theory can be so helpful sometimes in aiding understanding, but it also leaves out so much.

    But we’re talking mostly about intimate relationships, aren’t we? what did you think about my suggestion that you’re looking for someone to mirror back to you your masculinity?

  22. TG: If mirroring back to me “my masculinity” means mirroring back my feminity, sensitivity, strength, intelligence…then great. But I want to be clear that I have a mirror in my bathroom. What I want more than a mirror is to share/engage/laugh/make love to and with a real, live, awakened, evolved, WOMAN.

    What do you want in your relationships?

    Also, do you get my point that Ruth, by stating that I am sexist and have a superficial analysis, is not saying anything and is in fact discrediting herself with these kinds of hollow charges?

  23. TG: looking for someone to mirror back to you your masculinity?

    The post does sound a little like that & also could make one wonder, how will she be that accomplished and independent and also that present and supportive, it is not 100% practical. But the thing is, it’s a list of desirable things, not of demands, and I don’t think it is meant to be realistic in a literal sense. What is powerful about it, as I keep saying, is that it is such a vivid image. It puts sincerity before ‘striking the correct attitude’ and ultimately, I’d rather deal with people who will say what they do feel, rather than what they think they should feel.

    It’s also not 100% clear to me why people are being so picky about this post. With all of the various messed-up, cold, stingy, and otherwise freaky men who dot the landscape, I do not really see the point of splitting hairs with someone who is basically just saying they’re interested in some warmth and creativity.

    If I posted a list of physical characteristics I like and dislike in men, I’m sure I would catch a whole lot of criticism for being super-traditional
    and exclusionary, or quirky/kinky, or overly demanding, or something. As in: my height fetish
    makes me look at white and Black men generally sooner than men of other races, so I’m height-ist and racist all at once. I hate fat, and I don’t like too skinny either, so I’m weight-ist. I like men with manicures, so I am kinky. I think size does matter, so I am sexist and also just plain sinful. I thought up oral sex on my own, before I had ever heard of it. All of this means I am probably not radical enough, and that I am deeply conditioned to certain models of sexuality, but all I can really say to that is, well sure. It doesn’t mean I won’t negotiate. None of this stuff is illegal (any more), and it doesn’t cause me to bomb Lebanon, so I am not too concerned about it.

    This then leads us to an important point about sex, which I am far from the first person to make.
    While we can educate ourselves out of racism, sexism, etc., and should, I’m not at all sure it is either possible, or necessary, to educate people out of sexual desires or preferences. There is a lot more to say about that, of course, and about its political implications, none of which is original to me, so I’ll shut up for now.

  24. I do wish that Ruth had given a bit further insight into what she meant by her comments. I gave mine, but of course I don’t speak for her.

    what do I want in my relationships? come on over, I”ll post about it.

  25. This is such an interesting discussion. I hope I’m not getting too personal, since I only recently came upon your blog and don’t know you. But given what you said above — “I have experience creating negative realities by default; this book turned me on to “consciously” creating positive realities” — I’m assuming that you have had trouble in the past finding someone who fit the bill, so to speak.

    I’m commenting because I’ve recently read a book about what it’s like to be a Black man in our country called Envy of the World by Ellis Cose. (I’m not Black or male, but my son is. I’m trying to educate myself.) In it he talks about the relationship between Black men and Black women (VERY large group, EXTRAORDINARILY generalized). What he basically says is that there are more professional Black women than there are Black men. It is the group of professional Black women (people working in occupations requiring a college degree or commensurate) who are finding it hard to find Black men. Either the Black men they meet do not meet their standards or the Black men they’re interested in more easily date outside the race than the Black women.

    Anyway, I thought it was an interesting theory and also interesting to see here in real life what’s happening at least to one person.

  26. Hey there Max,

    I’ve read your blog here and there a few times but this is my first time commenting. I am clearly a little late on this topic but I must comment, because Ruth is on some whole otha type bullshit. I agree that it is impossible men not to be sexist because they live and were raised in systems where they benefited from the notion of what masculinity is. I haven’t been reading your blog long enough to be able to comment on what Ruth claims to be sexism all through your blog, but based on the beef she is trying to start based on your soul mate list, I’m guessing that she is a troll. Or someone who was just in the mood to spew some random nonapplicable feminist rhetoric.

    I see that you list physical and sexual traits that you desire, but the majority of your list seems to consist of emotional and personality traits. I take high exception with feminist who get so worked up about sexuality and physical attraction. As a woman I expect to be physically attracted to my partner and I damn sure hope he feels the same way about me. My first priorities in a partner is someone who is interested in my mind and someone who can go there with me when it comes to race, politics, literature, music, etc…… but I want him to quiver when I walk by naked out of the shower as well. The objection to woman being sexualized is that it is unfair for women to exist solely in the role of some mans wet fuck hole. But clearly from the other qualities you list, you describe the whole body and soul of a desired partner, and frankly that in itself is refreshing to hear from a brotha these days.

    Besides, while part of the goal of feminism is to create space for women outside of being a Barbie doll merely for the male gaze, but I don’t think that women have de-sexualize ourselves in order to achieve this. If a man can love that I am smart, powerful, and ambitious, then what is wrong with him also loving the fullness of my behind and the roundness of my breast?

    ……sorry for the long post. Just couldn’t help myself

  27. Saucy, thanks for stopping by and you don’t have to worry about going on too long; the content and length of your post was perfect:)

    I agree with all that you said. I mean, I’m supposed to ONLY be attracted to a woman’s mind, her character, her personality?! I have no expectation that my physical attributes won’t be on the table when someone considers me. That sounds very twisted and a little too intellectually pasteurized for my taste.

    One thing I hate is doctrinaire folk, the flag bearers speaking from a crib sheet they’re barely familar with.

    Ruth sounds like a young person who has just discovered feminism and now knows everything; or someone who is old, jaded and been terribly hurt by someone(s) male. She certainly wasn’t trying to have an intelligent conversation.

    Welcome, Saucy, and keep coming back!

  28. I read the comments and I thought it ironic that I ended up completely getting what Thinking Girl said. I think she attempted to offer nuance where Ruth was sort of sledgehammery.

    Thinking Girl is right on the money in so many areas. I have to think some more about why I had such a hard time trusting her. She invited me out for coffee over the holidays and I side stepped meeting her.

    Julian, I do have to say you are focussed. Had almost the exact same conversation with her about sexism that you’ve been having with me about patriarchy as it relates to your search for your soul mate female partner.

    I think I have a hard time taking in the sexual requests of straight men. I’m more of the mind that they should offer more of themselves and expect to be well loved and challenged on the regular.

    I think I wanted to see less “warning” and more situating yourself in terms of what you understand about yourself as a man who is unpacking masculinity and sexuality.

    I think that problematizing heterosexuality as a form of indoctrination imposed on young children would have served as a valuable counterpoint to the list you offered.

    It would have definitely shut the Ruth’s of the world down.

    That’s part of the reason my posts are usually so long and layered. I try to come at whatever subject I’m dealing with from as many angles as possible, that way, when/if people come to critique, there’s not much they can actually say that I haven’t already said myself.

    I prefer to deal with my shite before someone attempts to sling it back at me. 🙂

    Brave, Julian. Especially on a majority political blog. I appreciated that most.

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