From The Fighting 44’s Blog…

By Maxjulian

July 25, 2007

Category: Uncategorized

8 Comments »

This is an extremely intelligent discussion of dating outside the “race” forwarded to me by Terell:

Inter-racial Dating by Asian-Americans

Given that inter-racial dating and marriage, and sexuality and self-esteem in general, is a significant issue among Asian-Americans, I thought it would be appropriate to make a serious, sober, and reasoned statement on the topic (as opposed to the sarcastic, and some would say hilarious, things we’ve said in the past).

This statement only represents the views of Lopan and I, the founders of this site and online community. It does not represent the views of our members, of whom we have many men and women of varying ages and ethnicities.

I begin with this: we believe that inter-racial dating and marriage is a good thing. At its best, and in its healthy form, based on love and mutual respect, it transcends ethnocentric boundaries of race, nationality, religion, and culture, and nurtures an atmosphere of acceptance and an appreciation for diversity. Diversity is good, love is good, and understanding the “Other” and integrating that “Other” into the “Self” is good, and is something for which people should generally strive, regardless of involvement in race and gender politics.

The effect of colonialism and racism is that it distorts social and economic structures, and perverts fundamentally “good” things or ideas into something less good, and potentially harmful. Take the idea of “equality” for example. Early, or classical, Liberalism was founded on the notion that all women and men were equal and should be treated “equally.” People began to notice, however, that because of power imbalances in the social, economic, and political structures, treating everyone the same, or “equally,” resulted in gross inequality and the oppression of women and minorities (be they ethnic, sexually-alternative, or disabled). As a result, people began to advocate for specific groups and causes, and proposed “special” (or “unequal”) treatment for women and minorities to try to balance out those inequalities. As a result, “total” or “absolute” equality is now regarded by advocates and rights groups as a bad thing, even though it was intrinsically a good idea, but ended up perpetuating or exacerbating colonial and racist distortions.

Read the full article here.

 

8 Responses to “From The Fighting 44’s Blog…”

  1. From Fighting 44’s from the link you posted:

    “Remember, racism and colonialism benefits heterosexual white males the most. When you treat everyone “equally” in the classical Liberal sense without accounting for social and economic power structures, the heterosexual white man ends up on top.” — The author hit the the bulls eye here. The gender and race issue are so entertwined within colonialism, it is impossible to separate them. That article was passionate and well-structured.

    This is my general view on the IR couples: it’s cool as long as they are about emotion and not about f&cked up notions of supremacy or attention-seeking.

    TheFreeSlave, Bajan girl Rihanna is on the cover of VibeVixen magazine and within the article, she says something like “I wouldn’t have wanted to date white men before but they are killing it now” and she says “every hot guy I see is white” ((link:http://ghettofabu.blogspot.com/2007/07/rihanna-in-vibe-vixen.html))

    Now, these quotations might appear harmless but again, it just highlights the complex nature that IR has within black girls. She might be voicing some things many black girls are feeling @ the moment and is this like a certain cry of independence like black girls have moved on? Or is she applauding the Eurocentric look?

    Of course not all IR is calculated and I sincerely know that many IR couples exist cos of genuine affection. However, I can’t get her comment out of my head. If a black man had said this, it would have been CHAOS for sure. The gossip blogs and people at home would have erupted like volcano. Double standard? no doubt. Then, that is how the puzzle of gender f&cks around with our minds!!

    In terms of what she said and IR, I do think it was attention-seeking and it annoyed me that VibeVixen put it in capital letters like it was so f&cking important. Just hows that Eurocentrism is @ the core of black media!!

    I love seeing black couples together — it’s great. I just hope we can stop judging ourselves from the white viewpoint as her quotations prove because we will continue to lose ourselves.

  2. A: You know, I think at the highest level of human development, people are people. If people are able to elevate themselves emotionally/spiritually above their brainwashing, I believe at that highest level we can love and accept people as they are. Love is love at that point.

    But few people are spiritual seekers at that highest level; most are mired in and default to a secondhand ideology/belief system and shut down the growth, if there ever was any. They become obsessive-compulsive. I’ve seen it over and over again. Dead people, embalming themselves with hate, ignorance, retarding themselves in a comfortable stupor.

    The Vibe-Vixen quote above is that surface layer, level of understanding. If that’s where someone is that’s where they are. People who don’t know who they are are compatible with a lot of folk, regardless of race; its the universal condition.

  3. After thinking about the arguments on this blog a few questions come to mind.

    1) The author describes activism as an either or situation. One of the examples he gives is how an environmentalist driving an SUV is a contradictions of sorts.
    However if you take this reasoning to its limits then wouldn’t a true feminist only date women? If not why would this group be exempt from the either/or rule?

    2) Where do the children or interracial couples fall? Are they fruit from a “poisonous tree”? I understand that picking a partner is a choice unlike your parent, however I doubt anyone would deny the special bond between a parent and child. As such, wouldn’t a mix race person, who loves both their parents, be excluded from activist participation by default? Also what about “true” white allies?

    3) Are there no examples of people who married white but fought for the greater good? Frederick Douglass comes to mind.

    I understand we live in a complicated world and that race plays a role on so many levels. However I seriously wonder how much either/or arguments address that complexity.

    -T

  4. “You know, I think at the highest level of human development, people are people. If people are able to elevate themselves emotionally/spiritually above their brainwashing, I believe at that highest level we can love and accept people as they are. Love is love at that point.”

    I was thinking about the issue of IR lately. The above statement is so so true! I was thinking if we could just reach this level of “elevation”, then race/skin colour/religion/culture etc., wouldn’t be in the equation as a negative factor when it comes to IR. It’s a mental thing… “brainwashing” is a correct description. We all have preferences no doubt, but as long as you love someone for who they are as a person, with respect and honesty… then what’s the issue. Or am I being naive? Am I being a traitor to the “race”?

    I have been guilty over the years of shunning those in IR relationships… although I was in a few IR in the past. This is as complicated or as simple as “we”, as individuals want it to be. I believe I’m changing my stance on the issue.

  5. IR Relationships are very difficult to me. As a Black woman I’ve gone from being completely against them, to doing a few myself, and now I’m back to being ‘reserved’ against them again.

    I have enough issues in my life; I just don’t have the energy to be dealing with one in the United States, because I think anyone who says that it doesn’t take a lot of energy, especially a Black person, is just lying or in extreme denial, and that level of denial just scares me.

  6. Rikyrah,

    I’ve done IR, too, and got plenty of issues. “Just when I thought that I was out, they pull me back in.”

    They ain’t pulling me back in. I can’t see it – but I will never say never, say it could never happen cuz I don’t know the mind of God. But I know who I want and she is a woman of color.

    I believe, today, that in a system of racism/white supremacy one shouldn’t date the enemy…at least not until the society is truly egalitarian and we all know how long that will take. But I don’t choose to expend energy being mad at grown folks regarding who they want to be with.

    All some folk want to talk about is how others violate THEIR IR protocols. What kind of sense does that make? I’m a recovering alcoholic; should I obsess about folk who drink to excess? People who do that, in my view, are really trying to compensate for a shaky recovery. In terms of IR, most of the folks who holla loudest about other folks and IR aren’t so sure about their racial ID, or their marital prospects. They talk black love while sticking a pitchfork in black folks at the drop of a hat. Some love.

  7. Hi Freeslave, I just wanted to say thanks for pointing us out. Great and thoughtful blog and readers you have here =)

    –D, F44s

  8. The ambivalence coming from those who’ve been in IR relationships is especially interesting. This is more complex and realistic, I feel, than the usual thoughts of asian females with white men, for instance. Usually asian females in IR have no real position but to defend their ‘choice’ in a racist society that profits from exploiting and denigrating anything that is non-white. In this case, asian females are subjected to a fundamental self-hate and hatred of anything asian including asian men.

    Whites profit from IR much the same way they profit from the appropriation of Black American culture: reviling it and imitating it for White consumption, and always calling the shots while denying blacks any say in the process except as token minstrels.

    I notice the contradictions in some of these posts, and at the very least, they reveal non-white individuals working through the damage whites inflict; this to me, is a very important step along the way.

    The gender scars that exist among all non-white groups are the messy work that we all will confront as time goes on.

    Make no mistake: if IR was truly free and open-ended, there would be much more of a gender balance amongst people who outmarry or date. These gender imbalances, for instance, between black men verus black women outmarrying or dating, whether or not the other partner is white, are damning of white racism.

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